The Underground Onus

Open Questions To Christians

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1. thoughtful post…is this something that you’ve felt for long or was there a recent event or conversation that brought this out? i don’t really consider myself a christian…but I do claim to be a Christ-follower. Not all of us believe that everyone else is going to hell. I hope that you find someone who is a christian who will be willing to engage in some honest and open dialoge about this. Stay on the journey…

   

   rexhamilton

   December 27, 2007 at 3:39 am

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2. I think I’ve always been confused as to how I am to process the competing ideas of religion and cultures. I’m not a pathiest, I believe the truth is exculsive. Its exclusivity is beyond culture and that why I find Christianity so hard to accept. Is it the truth or is it simply my culture?
   As I get older, I feel more comfortable to express my discomfort about generally accepted ideas ie Jesus as hell insurance. When I was a kid, fear and guilt drove me toward professing Christ more than genuine belief in its truth.
   I have for my entire life tired to reconcile Christianity to what I have always believed. But that is the wrong approach I’ve learned. I must take Christianity for what it is… not what I want it to be…
   If you are a Christ follower you are a Christian. You may not agree with other Christians but you have to call yourself a Christian. I reject Christ because I think he is devisive without the authority to be so. He may have risen from the dead… but how am I to believe that? And worse yet, how can I reconcile that fact with the reality of competing cultures? We are all born biased, What makes Christ the God of all truth and power?

   

   Matt

   December 27, 2007 at 11:59 am

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3. Very cool Matt I am tracking you full on but I wanted to touch on one little thing about my not caring about religion. I dont care because I get it. Be nice you to people even your enemies. Rejoice in the world He created live no matter what and don’t let the man (satan guy) get you down. Well I guess its arguable if I really get relgion but I do know one thing. He made me and He understands me and He knows I will do the best I can so I just rock on and try to rock out!

   

   The Guy who lives next door to Matt

   December 29, 2007 at 12:17 am

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4. Danny Boy,

   Thanks for the comment! Its almost like a meeting between two worlds… my blog self and my army self. So thanks for entering to my blog world to unite the two a little.

   You do rock, man. Ive witnessed it myself. Almost at a level that is uncomfortbaly radical. You don’t really hold back like some people do.

   I hope God doesn’t damn you to hell. If I was God I don’t think I would… Although you did honk the horn that one time I told you not to. I’m still a little pissed about that.

   

   Matt

   December 29, 2007 at 12:41 am

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5. Matt:
   Well, I guess you touched a nerve with this blog….You made some pretty bold statements, and this auntie’s hair is standing tall!! Maybe that’s good in that I am once again motivated to defend my faith. You see, I am surrounded every day by those who knock, criticize and attack what I believe. I am taught by society that I must not defend my faith and that I am stupid for what I believe. Well, if you can boldly make your claims against Christianity, then I would ask you to give my response and defense equal time, which I think I am also entitled to.

   First of all, I am not mad at you for your statements. I believe that an honest search into truth will provide one the answers he searches for. And I must also say up front that the “quirky family” you mention in your next blog has always loved you. I have loved you from the day you were born, and I was literally there the day you were born. My statements are not personal attacks against you, but rather rebuttals to what you have said.

   Gosh, where to begin…..you say you believe in God, so I will not take time to defend His existence. I don’t know if we need to get into a dialog over the validity of Scripture, but I would certainly be willing to do so. But for sake of space and time here, I will simply respond to the statements you made and hope for an honest and open dialog with you as your friend Rex suggests.

   Let me begin by saying that what a person “believes” or doesn’t believe does not constitute truth. Belief does not create truth and unbelief does not destroy truth. You make many statements in your blog as to what you believe and what you do not believe or accept. Are you absolutely sure that you are right??? And if not, what defines truth to you?? Maybe you should ask yourself that question. Does absolute truth exist? And if so, maybe it would behoove all of us to seek it out instead of relying on our imperfect knowledge. I truly believe that an honest search for truth will gain honest results. However, a revelation of the truth also requires a response. If I could satisfactorily answer all your questions, would you then believe?? You stated you would, but my guess is that you might not, as many others have also done. Why??? Because it would mess up the way you are living, plain and simple. I don’t think this is an issue of intellectual understanding, but rather one of moral conviction. Are you willing to live your live according to the truth that is revealed or “proven” to you????

   I don’t claim to be a scholar on spiritual things, Matt. I have many questions, as you do. I don’t claim to have all the answers. If I did, then I would not need God because I would be equal to Him. I must rely on the answers that have been revealed to me to be enough. On a personal level, I too have “issues” with “institutionalized religion.” I have been hurt and deceived in my life more times by Christians than non-Christians. I have had my issues with church and its members over the past years. But I DO NOT DOUBT the truth revealed to me in the Bible. There is a big difference, a HUGE difference. You say you are in a place today of confusion and anger. Confused by your religious identity?? I think an honest search about who you are in God’s eyes will solve that problem. Angry at Christians? I think a better definition is that you are angry at God. Ponder that awhile, Matt. Religion does not equal relationship and there is a big difference in the two.

   Matt, you quoted a Bible verse in your blog. Not only did you misquote the verse, but I think you took it out of context as well. This is a common thing with many who want to dispute what the Bible says. Let me quote the verse you spoke of in its entirety: “Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.” (This is actually 1John 4:7, not 1John 1:7-8). However, if you look at 1John 4:8-15, you will see the clear and entire context of what you quoted. “Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed His love among us: He sent His one and only Son into the world that we might live through Him. This is love: Not that we loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in Him and He is in us, because He has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testified that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.”

   I think it is obvious that God’s love is clearly associated with the sacrifice of Jesus for us. This could also be a topic for longer discussion, but again, I will stick to the things you mentioned in your blog.

   You stated that God is just. I completely agree. I would also go on to say that BECAUSE He is just He must deal with sin justly. You say only those with a good heart will go to heaven. I ask you, “Who has a good heart???” Who among us is without sin?? I think the Bible makes it clear, as does our own consciences, that none of us are good. Not the muslims, and not the Christians. Not one. Therefore, how should God deal with any of us?? God made it clear that the penalty for sin is death and because He is just, he must make good on that promise.

   The above could lead into a long discussion about who Jesus is. You say it would require a supernatural act for you to adopt Christianity. You also allude that you cannot believe because you did not actually see him rise from the dead, etc. Well, I ask you….did you know Abe Lincoln?? Did you actually see him get shot by John Wilkes Booth? Maybe this seems trivial, but I think you get the point…sometimes we must believe history based on the eyewitnesses who WERE there and have recorded their observations! Eyewitnesses have recorded in the Bible as well as many other non-religious writings the events that happened in Jesus’ lifetime. Were they all wrong? I don’t think so. Most were killed for what they wrote, and were willing to die for their testimony. Not many people will die for a lie. Supernatural act??? Try the resurrection, Matt. Have I seen his mark on the universe?? Look around you, Matt.

   You talked about Paul’s doctrine, but I think you missed the main point of his doctrine. You stated that the law makes us aware of our own sinful condition. Right. You say the way to God is through repentance and confession of our sins. Not the complete truth. If you really examine Paul’s writings you will see that he clearly states that the way to God is through JESUS CHRIST. Paul, above probably all else in the Bible, preaches belief and GRACE as the way to God. He introduces himself in his writings as “an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.” (Gal. 1:1). Read the rest of Galatians 1. It clearly states that Paul’s testimony is that of Jesus Christ and nothing else.

   I think its safe to say that God gives us two choices: accept or reject. He offers Jesus and his sacrifice for our sins as payment in full, and full acceptance into heaven. (the existence of heaven and hell can also be debated at another time). Or you can take your chances with a VERY JUST God. The choice is yours. God does not send you to heaven…you make that choice yourself. And I don’t think God enjoys the fact that some will make the choice to reject his offer. I think he wonders instead why anyone would reject it!!!!

   Why are some born into muslim homes and some in Christian homes?? I don’t know. But I do know that those “radical Christians” you mention are in many cases persecuted and killed today for their role in spreading the gospel to those who haven’t heard. And yes, we are called not to judge the world, but to love the unlovely, the poor and the sinners. This is what the RELATIONSHIP is all about. And this is the Christianity I hope you will one day accept, Matt. Its real and its powerful.

   Maybe this only touches the surface, Matt, but I think its enough for now. I’m happy to go on if you want to. I owe my very life, now and eternal, to Jesus Christ, and I will go on record as that “quirky relative” who is proud to be a Christian.

   I love you Matt. Hang in there.
   Sandy (with a little help from Joe!) =)

   

   Sandy

   December 29, 2007 at 7:48 am

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6. Sandy,

   Well, This is all getting really heavy now. First off, I love you too. Really and truely. I don’t think your stupid or crazy for what you believe.

   This post is directed largly at my family because you all taught me what I know. This is what I was raised on: Jesus as hell protection. I do have a respect of the postive side of Christianity. I love certain parts of the church and hate others. This is an expession of the hate parts.
   FEAR and Guilt drove me toward Christianity. Alot of the time I didn’t even know what I should feel guilty about but I was told it was bad enough for me to go straigh square to hell.

   As I’ve gotten older I see things in my character that I don’t like. Sin. Not irrational guilt about past event but sin that I actively participate in on a daily basis that I want to stop. I want to change that behavior but to me its just a question of how does one get better in this life? How does someone give up behavior that they hate? Should they wait for a savior or vigorously attack the issue by pure will power?

   First thing I want to do is answer your questions. I’m not going to get too philosopical about it. I’m just gonna respond as best I can. Believe it or not, I don’t consider myself an intellectual either. I’m prone to heavy thoughts but when it comes to really defining those thoughts, things get hard. And I don’t always show that much discipline or skill.

   Questions for me.
   1. Am I sure I am right? Of course not. I’m just trying to be honest with the practical belief that I hold. These are my beliefs weather or not I communicate them or not. This is what I BELIEVE.
   Truth is absolute, I accept that. It doesn’t depend on what you or I believe about the truth. The truth is separate.
   In response to the 1 John quote… I intentionlly stopped at that point. The text is very clear. It is point blank. “whoever loves has been born of God and knows God” I accept that but I’m not sure I accept everything else. I’m am openly picking and choosing. I’m picking the parts that suit what I believe. Alot of christians do the same thing but don’t realise it.

   If you tell me that the only people that can love are christians, I disagree. Jesus is not the exclusive enabler of love. Are Christians the only ones that can love? thats a serious question. That needs an answer. I feel myself capable of love even though I don’t understand religion. I don’t even understand what that final statement in the verse means… “If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.” All I have to do is acknowledge that he is the Son of God and then God will live in me and then I will be able to love because God is love? And if God lives in me then I live in love? That is the exact issue that I’m trying to deal with here. What difference does it make what I “acknowledge”? I don’t acknowlege that because I don’t know that. If I don’t know, does that mean I cannot love? Why is acknowleging the improtant issue here? Shouldn’t the issue be what is in my heart?
   How can I acknowlege something I don’t know? Can I fake that? Can I force it though sheer desire? Can I will into being because I’m a bad person and in need of grace? Or is it something I must KNOW???
   I don’t know and therefore I don’t accept it.

   2. Who has a good heart? I agree that we are all sinful. Maybe I myself an crooked and evil. Must I believe that I am capable of no good? Are Christians the only ones who are good?
   The answer for me is that I try to do good and I try to be honest about my failures along the way. Seek good, renounce sin and confess failure. That to me is a better solution than hoping in some mystical deity to absolve me of all responsibility in life.

   Now I have a few questions for you.

   1. Are you sure you are right? Are you open to being wrong?

   2. You say that its as simple as accepting or rejecting. Does each person have equal oportunity to accept or reject? Or are some lives tilted to the accpet side? Is God fair in making this the standard especially considering the fact that millions are born with Allah (Mohammed as his prophet) on their lips. Millions simply passivly accept what they are taught and are not willing to reject their culture to accept western Chirstianity because it would mean suffering and death. If there is only ONE God, is it possible that we are all wrong? How much of religion is based on our Culture and how much is based on the Truth?

   3. Why is JESUS THE TRUTH? SINGULAR?

   Its important to note here that Abraham Lincoln never claimed to be THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. If he did, I’d probably be more sceptical about his life. I don’t doubt that Jesus lived. Its possible that he rose from the dead. I know there is alot of evidence pointing to that.

   The bottom line is, I think Christianity is unjust. And I think people are simply a product of their culture. You are a christian because you are American. Mohammed is muslim because he is Iraqi. If America finds Islam, you will convert. If Iraqi finds Christianity they will convert. God is the only one that can judge what is in the heart. Will JC be the mesuring stick like it says in the Bible? Will he ask, “did you accept my son?” or will he ask “How did you live your life?”
   I lean toward the latter.

   

   Matt

   December 29, 2007 at 11:05 pm

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7. Matt-just got your response…will write an answer in the next day or so. I would love to continue this dialog with you…just wish we could be sitting together here at home doing it!! Happy New Year Matt. You are special to me. Answers to your response coming soon…probably tomorrow.

   

   Sandy

   January 1, 2008 at 6:09 am

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8. HAPPY NEW YEAR
   Matt, I read your blog the day you wrote it and have been in a termoil ever since. I have prayed every night that God would give me the answes you need. He has chose not to enlighten me with that grat wisdom! Am I mad at Him? Nope. He’s God and I am just a vapor. His ways are not our ways. for me to understand His ways would be like Enstein explaning relativity to a dog. He says he knew me before I was born?
   Now a wise man benefits from the mistakes of others. I thought the same crap you do at a young age. I did not like being around so called Christians. I was a very angry man. Christians, I knew, to me were weak willed, mealy mouth…etc. I can’t write what I thought! I needed nobody or thing. I was VERY strong willed. I met your Grandmother and loved her at first sight. Hmmm that was odd? I have had many instances that caused me to pause in my life and think. Your Grandmother use to say I had no heart. She was so right. Then I had four little girls I loved so much. But still no heart for anything else. God has chose to reveal himself to me through Christianity. I am now a Christian but it took over 60 years. You know the story!
   Do you need to be like Saul and Frank to believe? I hope not! When you get home I can see you and I talking hours on the subject. I look forward to it. I would just like for you to do one thing. Don’t deny Jesus until you are 100% sure!!!!!
   You have your whold entire quirky family praying for you. I only had one person. So I ama not as worried as some in the family.
   I love you Matt.
   Grandpa

   

   frank

   January 1, 2008 at 9:47 pm

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9. Matt- I just have a few minutes and am headed to work, but wanted to leave you a tidbit of a note, and will write more later. OK? Yeah, this discussion can get heavy, but hey, we are up to it!!! =)

   I’m gonna just write from my heart for these couple min. and will get more specific later. I like the deep discussions like you do, so we’ll get into that later.

   As far as what you were raised on, Matt, I have a few comments. First, people respond to God’s calling in various ways. Some people need the “fire and brimstone” talk and that is what stirs their heart. (Obviously, you aren’t one of them!). Others need a gentle nudging, etc. etc. etc. Only God knows our hearts and what it takes to convince them of his presence, love, etc. With that said, I think you need to let go of the impression you were raised with and go with what you are searching for now…..I think we all reach a point in our life when we come face to face with God and our decision about what we will do with the knowledge we have. You are an adult and are accountable for that yourself. Maybe you aren’t happy with the “Christianity” you were raised on, but Christianity isn’t your problem….you are facing God today all on your own. Let go of the past and move on.

   You see things in your character you don’t like??? Well, so do I. Every day. I certainly can relate to what you said in that regard….its a constant struggle against the “me, myself, and I’s” to see the bigger pictures in life and respond accordingly.

   Let me leave you with this: in your searches through various religions of the world (I’ve done a bit of study in this also, tho I don’t claim to be an expert) have you come across one that offers FORGIVENESS of sins??? I have never seen one other than Christianity. Never. All others are based on “doing good and loving others.” That’s it. Do good and MAYBE you’ll be good enough to reach some good afterlife. No guarantees. In my thinking that doesn’t offer sinful me much hope because my struggles continue on.

   When you quote only part of the Bible and reject others, you are rejecting the whole thing. The Bible has a central theme which cannot be ignored. You can’t read a chapter of a book and say you know the whole theme….neither can you read a verse and say what God is or isn’t. I think to do that is dangerous thinking.

   The central theme of the Bible is God’s love, yes. But the expression of God’s love is in Jesus Christ. To take that out of the Bible is simply crazy because no one (scholars or not) can deny that truth. I believe God’s love is a VERB that is expressed in Jesus Christ. Forgiveness is a powerful tool in motivating different behavior. Because I know HOW MUCH God loves me, I am constantly in AWE at the forgiveness He offers.

   Therefore, I am not living with guilt and fear, I am living in amazement of the LOVE OF GOD. And that truly changes my behavior. Now, I know its not that simple and I think some of us need HELP in various forms to change of lifestyle, etc. And I think God brings people and situations into our life that help us in those areas.

   But here is a key point: I must want to change. No one can change without the desire. What motivates the desire?? For some its “fire and brimstone” and for others its just a clear understanding of an amazing love that is above and beyond anything I can comprehend. I am saved and forgiven…wow.

   I am late…need to stop now. Much more to come!!! Have a good day, Matt. I love you. Sandy

   

   Sandy

   January 2, 2008 at 5:06 pm

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10. Matt,

    This last post is quite a popular one, huh? So I’m gonna start off by asking whether or not you wrote this after reading Sam Harris’, Letter to a Christian Nation, or after drinking a bottle of vodka. Dude, I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. You’re about as confusing as the Bible can be at times. Ironically enough the second I finished reading your blog I turned and saw Letter to a Christian Nation so I picked it up and started reading. Come to find out that there’s a man out there as angry as some of us about Christianity’s influence on the world. Apart from some of the confused ranting, you do raise some very good questions Matt. And please don’t think for a minute that I don’t respect and even envy your honest ranting, how ever confused it may be. I’m afraid many of your questions I cannot answer, while others if I were to make an attempt would lead me to rely on my own intellectual capacity, which I know to be limited. So I’ll just comment on some of the stuff you’ve shared with all of us as best I can.

    I WILL NOT accept that those that bear the Christian name will experience love and goodness after death and those that don’t bear the Christian name will experience pain, loneliness and hopelessness.

    Nor do I. Bearing the Christian name has never constituted eternal “love and goodness”. Christ addresses this issue and you know what I’m talking about so I won’t get further into it.

    I believe good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. And I believe God is perfectly just.

    Just as you recognize the fact that people are more inclined to “inherit” the religion of their culture, so are people more inclined to “inherit” the behavior of their culture and subcultures (which includes family). Your statement is an oversimplification of reality Matt. We often times don’t know the difference between good and bad. If what you say is true, then God certainly is NOT just, because this would mean that the man who molests the child (and who himself may have been molested), would have just as little chance of entering heaven as the people you say get shafted by “Christian” dogma (assuming you believe molesting a child is “bad”). This sort of judgment is the worst form of condemnation.

    I don’t believe in an infinite torture chamber designed by a loving God.

    But you believe that bad people go to hell … ?

    As far as I’m concerned the person who loves does not need bear the title of Christian. If a Muslim loves then he is approved by God. If a Buddhist loves then he is approved by God. Titles are practically meaningless.

    Amen! For what you have done for the least of these, you’ve done for me. A Jesuit once told me that, “all men serve God, Christians merely know the God they serve”. Can people love or cast out demons in the name of evil? By no means, for a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.

    This question is the reason I do not go to church. As far as I understand Christianity on this point, I don’t accept it.

    Church, Christianity, and points … ARE NOT THE POINT!

    Maybe I am rotten on the inside and worthy of the wrath of God and maybe Jesus is the answer. But how can I believe?

    Just bow your head Matt and repeat this prayer after me …. HA!

    Do I have to pour hellfire on Muslims in order to accept grace from Jesus?

    …? Um, perhaps not from Jesus, but the Army will gracefully accept you.

    You say that this man, Jesus, will judge the whole world according to weather or not they profess him as Lord.

    I agree Matt. This concept of judgment is another oversimplification of the true complexity of judgment, even from a Biblical standing. Say your prayers and do your research.

    YET some have a higher probability of making this declaration based on where they live or on who your father is.

    Yes, higher probability, but only in the short run. The odds diminish the closer you get to Israel, funny that the place where Jesus actually existed on earth hasn’t proven to be the most fruitful reaping ground for born-agains. This point is a very interesting one, your current resentment towards the family that raised you to be a christian can be taken one step further and you should, in the same fashion, resent the faith of Abraham, which would turn to resent Jacob who became Israel, who bears the name of the nation that would be lead by Moses and give birth to king David which would eventually conceive the so-called “savior” (see Matthew 1 genealogy). All this to say that making statements like these …

    I believe in Christianity insofar as I believe that God is gracious to sinners. I believe in the Ten Commandments as a guide toward righteousness. And I also believe Paul’s doctrine that the Law makes us aware of our own sinful condition. I believe the way toward God is through repentance and confession of our sins.

    can only be made through faith, faith that has been passed along and established by the many people who have come before us (to include your quirky family). Paul states that God has revealed himself to all men through creation so that every man is without excuse. This also means that the Bible is NOT necessary in order for men to believe in the God we know and have come to know through Jesus. I don’t think I’m cherry picking here. It follows good logic to assume that if God has revealed himself to ALL men so that ALL men are without excuse, then I believe it is safe to assume that not ALL men have held the Bible and read it, or heard the gospel (when I say “heard” I mean from the pulpit that you and I have stood before so many times as Americans), and therefore God is revealing and has revealed himself in manners which to you and I may be unfamiliar. There is enough speak of Jesus in the Koran, there is sufficient talk of bhakti yoga (the way to God through love) in Hinduism, and there is enough denial by Buddha himself that he is not God but simply “enlightened”, for any human being to continue his search and understanding of God (just as you do with Jesus, the source of your faith). The very nature of your “anger and confusion” proves that if there is a God, he certainly has not made his ways clear or easy to understand. It is perfectly okay to grow frustrated, disillusioned, and angry with what we cannot or presently do not understand.
    Another idea that comes to mind is the fact that when Jesus was told to be silent his response was, “If you were to silence me, the rocks would cry out.” Another example of the uninhibited message that God wishes to deliver to the world.
    As for your issues and confusion with hell, contemplate the potential consequences of reincarnation, try to conceive the post mortem existence of nothingness, see what the world is offering as an after life and if you can convince me that they are any better than what is prescribed in the Bible I’ll consider making a change, but I don’t see the preferred member benefits that many people claim to hold with such understandings. Those in the world who consider themselves “better off” than others are most likely accepting the illusion that just because they are not suffering as others do, they are blessed in some manner. Reality is that we are all suffering and if you’re not than you’re not paying attention (I think I’m going to make a bumper sticker that says this, sort of like the “If you’re not pissed off than you’re not paying attention” bumper sticker).

    I think religion is highly arbitrary. And for most people it has no practical bearing on their life.

    I whole heartedly disagree with this statement. If it were true, then politicians would not use religion to gain the affections of us little people (that’s just one of the infinite examples). I’m surprised that you even said this.

    What matters is not religious doctrine but practical living. True belief defines behavior. In order to get to the heart of the matter, one has to clear out all the bullshit.

    And there is a lot of Bullshit (that caps is intentional). Religious doctrine motivates practical living.
    True belief defines behavior, okay, I accept this, crusaders truly believed that they should kill muslims and fight for the “Holy Land”, certain administrations truly believed that wars like Vietnam and Iraq were fought in order to bring freedom and democracy to some foreign part of the world. Suicide bombers are certainly defined by their sincere, true beliefs carried out in an extremely practical sense. In Guatemala abortion is illegal and if a women is caught she can be locked up for 30 years. 30 YEARS!!!!! Is that just? Or is that justice on crack? Or is it just practical living? I wish I knew. I would say that religious doctrine is extremely important, just as foreign policy is to a nation spinning in the grips of globalization.

    I applaud the radical Christians. Specifically those that love the unlovely, the poor, the downtrodden and the sinners.

    I don’t think they want you to applaud them Matt. I think they want you to be one of them.

    strength and honor

    Miguel

    

    Miguel

    January 3, 2008 at 6:44 pm

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11. Matt- a few more comments to you and then I will wait for your response to continue. I don’t want to sound like a spineless “Christian wimp” here…I really have done alot of thought and searching out of my own beliefs and I know they are not simple to understand. I know I will NEVER understand everything there is to know. I accept that my finite mind will never comprehend the infinite.

    I don’t know what the book is that Miguel is talking about, but I assume the author is not a fan of Christianity?? I would like to hear his arguments sometime. I suspect I would probably agree with some things he has said! Surprise you? Hopefully not. I have seen and experienced the “down side” of some “Christian politics” for lack of a better word. I’m not a fan of this type of “Christianity.” But I will stand on my faith and relationship with my God until the end. I hope you can see the difference.

    No, Christians are not the only people capable of love. Absolutely not. I believe we are created in God’s image and therefore possess His attributes and ability to love. I don’t think this is the point in determining what you need to “acknowledge.” I think what’s important is to see GOD as loving, and therefore to be “like Him” in our actions and behavior. And no, Christians are not the only ones capable of good behavior. I think there is an inborn “conscience” (given by God) that motivates us toward morality. Call it an inborn sense of right and wrong?? Where does that come from? I think it comes from a loving and just God, and our creation to be “like him.” Yes, granted some seem to have no sense of morality, etc. But I think that is something they have learned, and not their inborn nature. I won’t get into that any further right now. I also think we are given free will to choose to do wrong. Love is not really love if it isn’t a “choice.” This is also the nature God has given to us.

    Back to the point….You say your solution of “seek good, renounce sin, and confess failure” is better than a mystical deity absolving you of all responsibility in life. That might be true if you were making the rules! Like it or not, we peons here are subject to the rule of a righteous and just God who is far far superior than us and who doesn’t debate the rules! Good for us, that God is also a loving God who offers us a better way. And who says we aren’t responsibe for our actions? I think God holds us absolutely responsible for our actions!

    I think you suppose that by being “forgiven” we are therefore allowed to continue to sin. Not so. Once you “renounce failure and confess your sins” are you cleared from all guilt?? I don’t think so.(especially considering that we continue to sin!) Look at the old testament where the people are continually having to offer sin sacrifices over and over and over. I don’t think they are cleared from their guilt by confessing and renouncing their sins! I think this totally just God has made it clear that the penalty for sin is DEATH, plain and simple. We can argue what “death” consists of…I like to think it is separation from all that is good…God. We choose that ourselves when we deny him and his ways. He does not want that to be our choice.

    Therefore, I think God chose to reveal himself through Jesus Christ. He chose to offer us a sacrifice….ONCE. I think this is the ultimate expression of love from a very just God. It is an expression of who God is and what He is about. The loving side of Him, so to speak. You know the story, I don’t have to tell you that message. I think you know it already. Are we free to continue sinning? No. Will we? Yes. God knows that, but yet loves us enough to accept us anyway.

    You question whether each person has an equal opportunity to reject or accept (Jesus). Obviously not. Why? I don’t know. I only know that we are accountable for what he has revealed to us. For some that is a knowledge and understanding of God….in the Old Testament “Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.” Obviously, Abraham did not know Jesus, yet his faith in the God he knew was enough. Same with David, etc. etc. Miguel makes some good points as to the evidence of God throughout the world. Yet the people of the New Testament (Paul, for example) were capable of knowing and understanding the message of salvation through Jesus. They were then accountable for what they did with that knowledge.

    How much of religion is based on culture and how much is based on truth, you ask. Well, I say not all religions can be true!! Therefore the search for the “true” God and his ways is vitally important!

    Yes, Jesus claimed to be the way, the truth and the life. He claimed to be God. Therefore, I think it is valid to evaluate his claims and his life. Was he a fake? If so, all of Christianity is a fake. Or was he for real? Our knowledge of his claims demands that we answer this question. I would go on to say that you should question the claims of Mohammed, Joseph Smith, and anyone else who claims to be a messenger of the “truth.” REALLY QUESTION their claims and the validity and credibility of what they say, as well as what they offer and prove. I would also ask that you read the Bible in its ENTIRETY and then ask yourself what the major theme is. Same with the Koran, Book of Mormon, and any other religion you want. I think you will find the answers you seek if you do an honest, unbiased search.

    I think when God asks, “Did you accept my Son?” he is asking you “Did you accept me?”

    I hope all this makes sense, Matt. I look forward to your comments. Love you, Sandy

    

    Sandy

    January 4, 2008 at 5:56 am

    Reply
12. eh hem…:)
    so with as much tact, poise, and fashion.
    i will say this. for now.

    God is Love.

    so lets first unpack that.

    

    Lisa Goe

    January 28, 2008 at 8:50 am

    Reply
13. The answer to your question is actually easy. I belief what the Bible says. On that day of judgment, if your name is found to be written in The Book of Life, you will be allowed entrance into God’s Kingdom. If it is not there you will be thrown in the Lake of Fire with Satan and his fallen angels.
    Revelation 3:20-21 says; “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
    To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
    It is clear from those words of Jesus that it is an open invitation, available to all of us. God gave us free will; choose life – or – choose death. We must decide. But oh, He so dearly we all choose life!

    

    anothermouse

    September 16, 2008 at 5:49 am

    Reply
14. An interesting thought to ponder: “Those who say they want nothing to do with God will eventually get their wish.”

    

    Sandy

    September 27, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Reply
15. [...] can listen to the story here.  As you might remember I tackled the idea of eternal damnation on this blog back in Dec 07. [...]

    

    Modern Day Heretic « The Underground Onus

    December 6, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Reply
16. Ur so confused and angry and i belive u lost your path and belive me this is healthy
    it would lead you into better thinking and going on the right way

    I hope u find your way and fullfil you answers of what’s right and wrong

    

    Hanan-Mohammed

    October 2, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Reply
17. There are several ways that I’d like to respond to this post:
    First, it’s important to meditate on the nature of God. What does it mean to be “Trinity”? It means that Love constitutes who God is. Love is not a quality of God but the very nature of God, what makes Him exist. So, since we are created in God’s image then we, too, are creatures grounded in Love which is the very central core our being. Secondly, the Bible often speaks favorably about people who are not part of the “accepted” group, the “saved”. We read about Melchizadech, Abraham’s friend, a priest of the most high God. Job, too, was not Jewish, not a descendent of Abraham, the father of the officially “saved.” Jesus speaks of the great faith of the Samaritan woman who wants her family member to be healed and states that he has not encountered such a great faith even in Israel. Jesus, in his parable of the sheep and goats does not mention “belief” or “membership” as the deciding factor in the last judgment but, rather, one’s good works.
    Thirdly, it’s very important to remember Jesus’ admonitions not to judge others and that one’s judgment of others is the same standard that God will use to judge us. So, we must follow the path that God has laid out for us and focus on that, not to look sideways to see what others are doing.

    

    Gerasimos

    February 10, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Reply
18. Matt, one more thing. Focus on God and Christ. Talk to Christ, earnestly pray to Him. We are called to be like Him. Read about Him in the New Testament. Admire Him and follow Him in all your thoughts and ways. Ask Him, What is your will for me today? Find a spiritual mentor, preferably a holy man in a monastery who prays all the time. Pour your whole soul out to this man and ask for advice and prayer: which way should you go? Stay humble and non-judgmental, love your neighbor and feed the poor. Let God do the rest.

    

    Gerasimos

    February 10, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Reply

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